Larry Sanger started Citizendium

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Auggie
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Larry Sanger started Citizendium

Post by Auggie » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:26 am

after he left Wikipedia

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Dysklyver
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Re: Larry Sanger started Citizendium

Post by Dysklyver » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:40 pm

He has a new project called Everipedia now, it is like Wikipedia, but apparently better because it's "On the Blockchain".
Last edited by Dysklyver on Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Joy
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Re: Larry Sanger started Citizendium

Post by The Joy » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:07 am

How has Citizendium done? I haven't heard anything about it in years.
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Dysklyver
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Re: Larry Sanger started Citizendium

Post by Dysklyver » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:32 am

It still exists, but alas there's no point to it anymore, if indeed there was much point to it to begin with. There are several distinct problems with it:

1) No one seems interested, http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges shows almost no activity. Almost no one contributes to it, and this has been the situation throughout it's existence.

2) It has no HTTPS certificate. Even my personal wiki has a HTTPS certificate, they are free and take limited dev time to deploy, so the lack of a HTTPS certificate is evidence they have zero technical support. http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Forum_Ta ... cal_Issues reads like a disater zone. They have frequent <math> problems, no working staff email (email is a bastard to setup), a broken Robots.txt (evidence they don't use the google webmasters console), various problems with losing their last crat, issues with not keeping Google analytics working, and other problems.

3) The dev problems make it impossible to request an account except via their mailing list. This is remarkable, as I am probably eligible to register but have zero interest in going through such an arduous process.

4) They can barely afford the $100 a month hosting, this is evidenced by http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Financial_report among other clues, and suggests that the site is being kept up as hobby by a few folks, and is in no way a production website anymore.

5) Larry Sanger betrayed them and went off to profit from the crypto/blockchain boom with Everipedia powered by the EOS cryptocurrency.

6) As a resource I am unimpressed, compare http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Microeco ... le_Version to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microeconomics and you soon realise Wikipedia is pretty good now, especially in it's GA and FA content. Citizendium has good articles, but in my humble opinion they are no better than Wikipedia's good articles.

Overall it's a fine hobby wiki for the experts that still use and pay for it, I can respect this, I don't mind paying for part of a small wiki that is sort of personal to me and my friends, and that is what's happening here.
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Auggie
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Re: Larry Sanger started Citizendium

Post by Auggie » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:49 pm

Citizendium was an ok idea but always suffered from a horrible name and way too much red tape. At the beginning they were reasonably sound technologically, though I question why they had to customize MediaWiki so much because anything like that is bound to make updates harder.

The major problem right now, in addition to all the stuff you pointed out, is that it does not look right on mobile devices. Google will penalize you for that.

Dysklyver, is your wiki www.wiki.org.uk? It loads fine on desktop but on my phone I'm getting a mediawiki internal error.

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Dysklyver
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Re: Larry Sanger started Citizendium

Post by Dysklyver » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:18 pm

Auggie wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:49 pm
[...]

The major problem right now, in addition to all the stuff you pointed out, is that it does not look right on mobile devices. Google will penalize you for that.

Dysklyver, is your wiki www.wiki.org.uk? It loads fine on desktop but on my phone I'm getting a mediawiki internal error.
Yes, and yes. The issue here is that the MobileFrontend package is not very easy to setup right. I am not surprised that Citizendium doesn't have it. Regarding the Google penalty, it's worse than that. Google will penalise you for a non-mobile responsive site, but MobileFrontend is not responsive, instead it enables switching to an m. mobile site based on device screen size. Google will still penalise the site for this, and the the only way to avoid it is to set a responsive skin as default. [(Edit: This appears to be fixed to some extent, so google is currently happy with MobileFrontend.)

The MobileFrontend package did work on wiki.org.uk at one point, I had the opportunity to test this. When I have some free time I am going to check out what Isarra has been working on, as I understand it, there is now a responsive monobook skin. Perhaps I will make that the default, depends how good it is.
Last edited by Dysklyver on Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Auggie
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Re: Larry Sanger started Citizendium

Post by Auggie » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:22 am

I'm really happy you're here because these are issues I am very interested in. I did not know that the mobile frontend extension was insufficient for Google. It always seemed kind of weird to me that an extension was needed. A skin should be able to adjust to screen size. I thought that was the whole point of css and the separation of content from the instructions about how to display it.

At any rate we should probably continue this in another thread.

I would offer to help you with Mobile Frontend except I barely remember how I did it. It works fine on my wiki. If wiki.org.uk can't get it to work, I would recommend at least commenting it out on LocalSettings until you can figure out what is wrong.

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