Sagecandor returns

Specific discussion about Wikimedia editors and editing of Wikimedia project pages.
Proabivouac
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Re: Sagecandor returns

Post by Proabivouac » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:57 am

The Devil's Advocate wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:02 pm
A lot of his edits there were about the term "devil's triangle" and for anyone who kept track of the Kavanaugh confirmation fight, you would know this is a term that came up because it was disputed whether Kavanaugh lied when he stated the term when used in his yearbook was about a drinking game because others have claimed it was sexual slang about having a threesome. This fed into charges that Kavanaugh perjured himself during his testimony. Cirt specifically added quotes referencing the sexual slang to the definition page and created a citation page for the term and that was overwhelmingly comments about Kavanaugh.
It's funny how the "devils' triangle" page gives a wayback machine-like timeline dating to Middle English, but the earliest cited example is from 2013.

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Pudeo
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Re: Sagecandor returns

Post by Pudeo » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:08 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... tions/Cirt

There is a new suspected Cirt sockpuppet. Any opinions? Atleast it's suspect that it had edited devil's triangle (something that Cirt edited in Wiktionary too).

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The Devil's Advocate
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Re: Sagecandor returns

Post by The Devil's Advocate » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:58 pm

Pudeo wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:08 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... tions/Cirt

There is a new suspected Cirt sockpuppet. Any opinions? Atleast it's suspect that it had edited devil's triangle (something that Cirt edited in Wiktionary too).
Bbb23 has revealed, in vague terms, a lot of the CU data, which is not something you often see in these cases. The value of it depends a lot on what those details represent. Having the same ISP provider, OS, and browser can be significant or it can be inconsequential. Were they using the same regional DSL provider, Linux, and Internet Explorer then this would seem significant. By contrast, if they were both using Comcast, Windows 10, and Google Chrome, then this data is meaningless and the slight inconsistencies mentioned would be enough to dismiss the charge without substantial behavioral evidence.

However, it is worth pointing out what appears to have attracted the attention of the person making the report. Qwirkle left a remark opposing Galobtter's recent bid for adminship. Yetishawl left a comment supporting it. Rather unusual for such a new account to pop up at RfA. Having said that, this doesn't mean Yetishawl is another sock of Cirt. I would say there is a very good chance the account is a sock of someone, but I am not seeing the evidence yet. Only commonality I see right now is both say "cite needed" in edit summaries, but Yeti did that when removing a detail as opposed to Sage and Cirt who tagged material. Not sure this is a common phrasing as I looked at just a few other editors, only one of whom used it, but it could still be common enough as to not be definitive. However, it is still worth noting this is a commonality shared among all three accounts.

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The Devil's Advocate
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Re: Sagecandor returns

Post by The Devil's Advocate » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:13 am

So the account was banned and I wasn't terribly convinced, but I just reconsidered this little comment made by the account:
Surely there must be more than a handful of people using Chrome on Linux on Verizon.
Linux was one of the examples I threw out as unlikely for someone else to be using. To be fair, this was a mobile edit and apparently Android is based off Linux. However, I'm not sure why someone wouldn't just say Android instead of Linux. Seems more likely this person is saying the desktop OS is Linux. According to various sources, the number of people using a Linux computer OS is usually less than 1% out of all of them. What we would be dealing with then is someone editing from the same area, using a fairly uncommon OS, editing on some of the same topics advancing the same agenda, having some phrasing in common with Cirt/Sagecandor, and who showed early proficiency with various bits of Wiki fiddling. Much harder to imagine that this is anyone but Cirt.

I recall there being some suspicion that Sagecandor had used other accounts during his "health crisis" break. One account was identified, but it wasn't clear if it was the same person. The account was X1\ and the most revealing aspects were the account showing up right as Sagecandor was exposed back in mid-2017 as well as editing some of the same articles, specifically The Plot to Hack America, which was created by Sagecandor. Both Intersect and Editor Interaction show a lot of common articles, though it is mostly contemporary politics. The most suspicious bits of overlap are them both editing the obscure stub "Resistance Manual" and particularly the common editing of "Snakes in Suits" as that has no direct political connection let alone a Trump connection.

Should Yetishawl really be Cirt/Sagecandor, then it is worth noting Intertwine leaves enough room for the X1\ account to be operated by the same person. My own look at overlap with Sagecandor shows some close-in-time editing that would be tricky, though maybe still possible, to pull off. Most of the overlap allows ample time for swtiching accounts. Particularly worthy of mentioning is that X1 ghosts for a few days when the other accounts get reported to SPI. However, I haven't seen any of the obvious behavioral cues. The accounts have different styles, but it is worth noting Sagecandor during his brief return avoided some of the past commonalities identified when he was first exposed. Yetishawl did not repeat a number of the behavioral quirks either. If Yetishawl is a sock of Cirt/Sagecandor, then it would probably be easy enough for a Checkuser to verify any connection to X1 and Sagecandor's data should also be recent enough to verify.

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Pudeo
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Re: Sagecandor returns

Post by Pudeo » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:14 pm

I haven't seen X1 before, I think. You mention that there aren't any behauvioral patterns, but see his talk page, he seems to be starting a new row often just like Cirt.

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The Devil's Advocate
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Re: Sagecandor returns

Post by The Devil's Advocate » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:49 pm

Pudeo wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:14 pm
I haven't seen X1 before, I think. You mention that there aren't any behauvioral patterns, but see his talk page, he seems to be starting a new row often just like Cirt.
I suppose that is one commonality. However, it isn't a particularly distinctive one. Was not suggesting there are no behavioral patterns, just that nothing we've brought up before has been repeated and I didn't see any other patterns jump out. Also should point out the periods where X1 ghosts also correspond to weekends and that seems to be a recurring pattern. So, it could be unrelated to other accounts being brought up at SPI. The timing, obvious experience with Wikipedia, and common interests are the most indicative. However, as noted, some editing overlap is very close and thus might be difficult for one person to be doing.

sashi
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Re: Sagecandor returns

Post by sashi » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:29 am

I drew attention to X1\ in my WPO article (in a sort of roundabout way). Not sure they're the CIRT (in fact, I'd given up trying to guess), but I am sure they're not very fair play. It's a clever user name, it breaks the WPO "wparticle" tag and makes linking difficult in general.

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