The Dutch copyright law and it's quotation law

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EarlStatler
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The Dutch copyright law and it's quotation law

Post by EarlStatler » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:54 am

In Holland we have the very strict Auteurswet, in name of Wij WILHELMINA, bij de gratie Gods, Koningin der Nederlanden, Prinses van Oranje-Nassau, enz., enz., enz.
Welcome in Netherlands, the old kingdom with his Code Napoléon and judges who represent our king or queen. You are more than welcome in my country. Because that is were the Dutch WMF products are, legal. And I will try to explain you this legal snake pit, the coming day's

There are huge differences between the American and Dutch copyright. And between the European country's too.
And yes, I know there is a discussion about copyright in the European parlement, but don't expect a revolution. The European parlement is a powerless retirement home for european politicians at the end of there career, and decision making at a European level is very, very hard and maybe almost impossible at the moment. For many political reasons. And the result will not be a kind of American copyright, but a mix of the copyright of the European country's. If they ever agree! Till that time we have to deal with our auteurswet out of 1912.
The individual country's are very, very nationalist, and proudly of there intellectual property, and the national parliament of all that country's have to agree. The only thing the European parlement can do is make a proposal, and try to mediate, but that is all what is in there power! Our Minister-President called once the European parlement a party committee looking for a party, so keep that in mind!


Auteurswet
Lets have a closer look at that Dutch auteurswet. I found a translation made by Professor van Eechoud. In short, Holland does't have fair use, without the permission of the author it's strict forbidden to use his work. Nothing! And the author owns always the copyright, without registration. So, you own the copyright of the most stupide pickture or text on your Facebook. Automatically.

There are a few exceptions, but only one is interesting for us, article 15a of the Auteurswet. Het citaatrecht, the right of quotation. And the jurisprudence make it so complex. It's only a dash of light, and very limited by that jurisprudence.
I wrote a article about it., in Dutch.

But were is that quotation law about. Let's have a closer look at the English translation of that article 15.


Article 15a
*It is not regarded as an infringement of the copyright in a literary, scientific or artistic work to quote from the work in an announcement, review, polemic or scientific treatise or a piece with a comparable purpose, provided that:

1) the work quoted from has been lawfully made public;
2) the quoting is in accordance with what social custom regards as reasonably acceptable and the number and size of the quoted parts are justified by the purpose to be achieved;
3) the provisions of Article 25 are observed; and
4) the source, including the maker’s name, is clearly indicated, in so far as this is reasonably possible.

Looks simple isn't it? Take a piece of text, the goal is, lets say collecting knowledge, and yes, it is reasonable acceptabel to use it in, lets say a article, an the source, is it reasonable to ask for it? No, not always. So, we stacking a few quotes, a license, and yes by magic do we have a legal article.

Is this allowed? No. Why? Because of the jurisprudence of our Code Napoléon legal system. And were did I found this out? On Wikiquote-NL, were I can't edit anymore because or a Global Lock, the famous SanFanBan!
Last edited by EarlStatler on Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:52 am, edited 19 times in total.
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Flip Flopped
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Re: The Dutch copyright law and it's quotation law

Post by Flip Flopped » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:44 pm

Looks interesting!

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EarlStatler
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Re: The Dutch copyright law and it's quotation law

Post by EarlStatler » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:23 pm

I hope so. But if something is not clear, please ask me.
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sashi
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Re: The Dutch copyright law and it's quotation law

Post by sashi » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:28 am

EarlStatler wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:54 am



Auteurswet
Lets have a closer look at that Dutch auteurswet. I found a translation made by Professor van Eechoud. In short, Holland does't have fair use, without the permission of the author it's strict forbidden to use his work. Nothing! And the author owns always the copyright, without registration. So, you own the copyright of the most stupide pickture or text on your Facebook. Automatically.

There are a few exceptions, but only one is interesting for us, article 15a of the Auteurswet. Het citaatrecht, the right of quotation. And the jurisprudence make it so complex. It's only a dash of light, and very limited by that jurisprudence.
All the discussion of lending is also interesting... but the clincher is also:
Article 25: Even after assignment of his copyright, the maker of a work has the following rights:

a. the right to oppose the making public of the work without mention of his name or other indication as maker, unless such opposition would be
unreasonable;
b. the right to oppose the making public of the work under a name other than his own, as well as any alteration in the name of the work or the indication
of the maker, in so far as these appear on or in the work or have been made public in connection with the work;
c. the right to oppose any other alteration made to the work, unless the nature of the alteration is such that opposition would be unreasonable;
d. the right to oppose any distortion, mutilation or other impairment of the work that could be prejudicial to the reputation or name of the maker or to his dignity as maker.
European laws seem to protect authors from themselves should they ever change their minds about their contributions. I'm sure there's some Berkman Center lawyers who are up on this... https://cyber.harvard.edu/people

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EarlStatler
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Re: The Dutch copyright law and it's quotation law

Post by EarlStatler » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:07 am

sashi wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:28 am
EarlStatler wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:54 am



Auteurswet
Lets have a closer look at that Dutch auteurswet. I found a translation made by Professor van Eechoud. In short, Holland does't have fair use, without the permission of the author it's strict forbidden to use his work. Nothing! And the author owns always the copyright, without registration. So, you own the copyright of the most stupide pickture or text on your Facebook. Automatically.

There are a few exceptions, but only one is interesting for us, article 15a of the Auteurswet. Het citaatrecht, the right of quotation. And the jurisprudence make it so complex. It's only a dash of light, and very limited by that jurisprudence.
All the discussion of lending is also interesting... but the clincher is also:
Article 25: Even after assignment of his copyright, the maker of a work has the following rights:

a. the right to oppose the making public of the work without mention of his name or other indication as maker, unless such opposition would be
unreasonable;
b. the right to oppose the making public of the work under a name other than his own, as well as any alteration in the name of the work or the indication
of the maker, in so far as these appear on or in the work or have been made public in connection with the work;
c. the right to oppose any other alteration made to the work, unless the nature of the alteration is such that opposition would be unreasonable;
d. the right to oppose any distortion, mutilation or other impairment of the work that could be prejudicial to the reputation or name of the maker or to his dignity as maker.
European laws seem to protect authors from themselves should they ever change their minds about their contributions. I'm sure there's some Berkman Center lawyers who are up on this... https://cyber.harvard.edu/people
I have very limited time time at the moment for a very positive reason, but I have to finish my posting. But yes, you can change your mind, because you always (there are a few exceptions) the owner of your work, and it is only allowed to use someones work with his permission! It is like you are lending your car to someone, at the moment you want it back, he has to give it back! And also when someone uses a part of your work for quotation, within the very limited boundaries, you still own the copyright! And our quotation law is very tricky, I will explane that later, so, if you remix, it can become copyvio, so you can never, never use that CC license! But like I said, I will explane this very tricky exception later, although someone how did five years over the first three years of the primary school has to explane what seems to be the field of a Harvard Professor!
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Proabivouac
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Re: The Dutch copyright law and it's quotation law

Post by Proabivouac » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:32 pm

EarlStatler wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:54 am
In short, Holland does't have fair use, without the permission of the author it's strict forbidden to use his work. Nothing! And the author owns always the copyright, without registration. So, you own the copyright of the most stupide pickture or text on your Facebook. Automatically.



There are a few exceptions, but only one is interesting for us, article 15a of the Auteurswet. Het citaatrecht, the right of quotation. And the jurisprudence make it so complex. It's only a dash of light, and very limited by that jurisprudence.
I wrote a article about it., and in the coming day's I will explane it to you.
Actually, het citaatrecht sounds very much like fair use. Unlike a commons license, fair use isn't transferable, which is one reason why en.wp images exist separately from the articles to which they're transcluded. Each new use would have to be justified as fair use according to considerations which are basically similar to those listed in citaatrecht as you describe it.

It is also the case that, generally speaking, an American writer owns the copyright to his/her own work by default without registration. No doubt there are differences between Dutch and American law, but the ones you assert here would not be them.

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EarlStatler
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Re: The Dutch copyright law and it's quotation law

Post by EarlStatler » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:48 pm

You could say Citaatrecht is a very limited form of Fair Use, it has because of our legal system many, many restrictions, much more than Fair Use. And yes, you are right, het Citaatrecht can't be transferred. But the Wikilawyers on WP-Nl thought that it could.
The articles on WP-NL are build up out of parts of protected material, under the umbrella of the misinterpreted Citaatrecht, with a CC license.

They are two times wrong.
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EarlStatler
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Re: The Dutch copyright law and it's quotation law

Post by EarlStatler » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:28 pm

For your information, I have added the part citaatrecht (Article 15a) and in the coming days I will finish that part.
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