Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

General discussion about Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects
Proabivouac
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Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by Proabivouac » Sun May 13, 2018 12:58 am

Auggie wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 12:39 am
haha they're so lame. I didn't think they could get any lamer, and then Greg left and it actually got worse.
Excepting his grammar checks, Greg was a high value poster, so that was a blow in itself. Maybe he was sick of taking all the blame for something that he never really controlled? I did my best to make sure that people knew the real person they should be contacting and complaining to, but there would have been many more who couldn't have known because there was no venue like this one in which these matters could be discussed.

Allegedly, McGomi is no longer a sysop – I'm not sure what this means technically, e.g. is he no longer root admin? – and hasn't logged in for weeks. I will guess that Jackass is still on retainer, so that may not mean much either way. It's difficult to say since none of these was even remotely transparent to begin with – it makes WIkipedia look remarkably honest, well-documented and clear. Even this is a shame as he was capable of being a decent poster so long as he stuck to the subjects that he understands (i.e. computers.) Mostly he was a terrible leader with whom people were stuck because he'd bought off the board. He should have been forced to disclose his identity because without that the case for including him was much weaker, and he was seriously abusive during the years he'd thought that his anonymity was guaranteed.

On a completely unrelated note, it'd be awesome if we could somehow convince Steve McGeady of DOJ v. Microsoft fame to contribute to this forum. The word on the street is that he's been watching Wikipedia and criticism sites for over a decade now, he may have even read this site, and he probably has quite a bit to contribute were he so inclined.

Renée Bagslint
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Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by Renée Bagslint » Sun May 13, 2018 6:37 am

The post in question has been removed by Tarantino, which is something. BTW in English libel law, a libel is "published" as soon as it is shown to a third party: it does not have to be made available to the general public to be the subject of legal action.

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The Joy
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Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by The Joy » Sun May 13, 2018 6:57 am

Proabivouac wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 9:45 pm
Renée Bagslint wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 9:08 am
Someone who says "this is my board and I'll only allow opinions I agree with" is giving the rest of us fair warning
And yet it isn't actually his board. He owns neither the address nor the vast majority of content, to which he barely contributed at all. There was no vote to make him supreme leader. He and McGomi run the site by virtue of technical control, as has become crystal clear now that this beard of "trustees" has fallen out due to radiation sickness. In theory, Wikipediocracy was constituted as a board of trustees, explicitly for the purpose of preventing any one person (namely Selina) from having too much power, but on the database side was set up as yet another dictatorship by sysop, and worse still entrusted to a demonstrably untrustworthy indivdual who in the waning days of WR tried to hijack that site, too (and trashed threads en masse, and stacked polls, and hacked a user's account to sockpuppet the board, etc.) The Parliament has disbanded and King Greg has abdicated yet the site carries on because it was McGomi and Jackass running it all along. We can see another reason why they never formally incorporated as a non-profit entity: besides their unwillingness to post their real names, what they've done here would probably be illegal.
Old WR and WPO have taught me painful lessons about trust. Ones I can never forget even if I wanted to. Sigh... :oops:
"In the long run, volunteers are the most expensive workers you'll ever have." -Red Green

"Really, what we want now, is not laws against crime, but a law against insanity. That is where the true evil lies." -Mark Twain

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The Joy
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Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by The Joy » Sun May 13, 2018 7:10 am

Proabivouac wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 12:58 am
Auggie wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 12:39 am
haha they're so lame. I didn't think they could get any lamer, and then Greg left and it actually got worse.
Excepting his grammar checks, Greg was a high value poster, so that was a blow in itself. Maybe he was sick of taking all the blame for something that he never really controlled? I did my best to make sure that people knew the real person they should be contacting and complaining to, but there would have been many more who couldn't have known because there was no venue like this one in which these matters could be discussed.

Allegedly, McGomi is no longer a sysop – I'm not sure what this means technically, e.g. is he no longer root admin? – and hasn't logged in for weeks. I will guess that Jackass is still on retainer, so that may not mean much either way. It's difficult to say since none of these was even remotely transparent to begin with – it makes WIkipedia look remarkably honest, well-documented and clear. Even this is a shame as he was capable of being a decent poster so long as he stuck to the subjects that he understands (i.e. computers.) Mostly he was a terrible leader with whom people were stuck because he'd bought off the board. He should have been forced to disclose his identity because without that the case for including him was much weaker, and he was seriously abusive during the years he'd thought that his anonymity was guaranteed.

On a completely unrelated note, it'd be awesome if we could somehow convince Steve McGeady of DOJ v. Microsoft fame to contribute to this forum. The word on the street is that he's been watching Wikipedia and criticism sites for over a decade now, he may have even read this site, and he probably has quite a bit to contribute were he so inclined.
I've felt there's always been a "Third Man" involved with Old WR and WPO. Someone keeps funding the Old WR and keeping it alive, though I never thought it was Selina. In fact, Selina had at least one fundraiser I was aware of in the early days and she likely asked for money at other times, too. At some point, we never had to worry about money anymore, but no one really explained who was footing the bill. Then WPO starts and now we don't know who the real "power behind the throne" is, so to speak. It's very disturbing. It's like the two sites have a Sith Lord (Sith Lords?) controlling and manipulating behind the scenes. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Gomi, though Gomi on Old WR was usually aloof with mod/staff duties until after the Poetlister fiasco. He was more gung-ho with WPO. Then again, he's aloofness may have been more of a ploy. He and I clashed during the old WR days on moderating and staffing issues. We never got along.
"In the long run, volunteers are the most expensive workers you'll ever have." -Red Green

"Really, what we want now, is not laws against crime, but a law against insanity. That is where the true evil lies." -Mark Twain

Renée Bagslint
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:43 pm

Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by Renée Bagslint » Sun May 13, 2018 4:43 pm

So what is it with this Hersch character? He seems to have a particular dislike for everything British. Did he get turned down for Eton or something?

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The Devil's Advocate
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Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by The Devil's Advocate » Sun May 13, 2018 4:51 pm

Renée Bagslint wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 4:43 pm
So what is it with this Hersch character? He seems to have a particular dislike for everything British. Did he get turned down for Eton or something?
He's a Larouchite. They have a particular thing about the British.

Renée Bagslint
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:43 pm

Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by Renée Bagslint » Sun May 13, 2018 5:01 pm

Ah, the people who think that the Queen runs the international drug trade. Why am I not surprised that he finds a home on WO?

Proabivouac
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:01 pm

Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by Proabivouac » Sun May 13, 2018 7:00 pm

The Devil's Advocate wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 4:51 pm
Renée Bagslint wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 4:43 pm
So what is it with this Hersch character? He seems to have a particular dislike for everything British. Did he get turned down for Eton or something?
He's a Larouchite. They have a particular thing about the British.
Not just a LaRouchite, but a professional LaRouchite working for American System Publications.
Renée Bagslint wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 5:01 pm
Ah, the people who think that the Queen runs the international drug trade.
Certainly this was true at one time. They even went to war with China to force them to buy their smack. That's how they got Hong Kong. But I'm not sure that this is what LaRouche is talking about.

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Auggie
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Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by Auggie » Mon May 14, 2018 1:13 pm

Hersch aka Herschelkrustofsky infested Wikipedia Review shortly after it was established. He is a Lyndon LaRouche operative and has been a member of their organization for decades. I would not be surprised if he is their designated point man for all matters Wikipedia.

LaRouche, for those who don't know, ran for president of the USA several times in the late 20th century until he got too old to keep doing it. He has his own really weird political philosophy that is probably closer to fascism than it is to mainstream Republicans or Democrats. Like the Nazis, he blames a lot of the world's problems as being caused by bankers in London. This is a classic dog whistle term for "Jews". LaRouche also has written articles that say the Holocaust was not meant to be a genocide but was rather a forced labor program that the Germans did because of the British, and that it killed some people but far fewer than six million. In other words, LaRouche is a Holocaust-denying scumbag conspiracy nutjob.

Hersch played a big role in the breakup of the old Wikipedia Review because Selina caught on to the idea that the site was being staffed by a crank political operative and his buddies. Then he went on to become one of the founding fathers of Wikipediocracy. Somey/Midsize Jake has always tried to say that the forum admin Hersch should be judged independently from his political beliefs, but I think this is nonsense.

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The Devil's Advocate
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Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by The Devil's Advocate » Mon May 14, 2018 5:27 pm

Well, as far as his moderator activities go, I haven't seen or heard any indication that he has conducted himself inappropriately to my recollection. Controversies over forum staff seem to center on the other parties.

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