Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

General discussion about Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects
Renée Bagslint
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Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by Renée Bagslint » Mon May 14, 2018 6:30 pm

The Opium War and annexation of Hong Kong took place in 1839-1842. By the same argument, the current President of the United States is behind the international people trafficking cartel because William Henry Harrison (President 1841) was pro-slavery. But there seems little point in debating such obvious lunacies.

Proabivouac
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Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by Proabivouac » Mon May 14, 2018 9:13 pm

The Devil's Advocate wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 5:27 pm
Well, as far as his moderator activities go, I haven't seen or heard any indication that he has conducted himself inappropriately to my recollection. Controversies over forum staff seem to center on the other parties.
So you really think that Will Beback "won" Wikipedia Review's "DIck of Distinction" poll fair and square? No one cared about him except for Hersch; he was on the other side of the LaRouche article conflict and that was the only reason. It was discovered that both McGomi and HK had been stacking the polls, and that is an obvious example. He steered the entire site towards criticism, including "outing", of LaRouche's Wikipedia enemies. But of course "outing" him was forbidden, as sadly it is here.

HK and McGomi were coordinating sockpuppet expeditions on the LaRouche articles, so however McGomi personally feels about LaRouche – we know how he feels about honesty – he was happy to aid his brother in conspiracy. Discussing this was also forbidden. Instead, all the site's guns were aimed at the administrators and checkusers who were busting their socks without ever admitting the reason for this. HK even penned two blog posts for WPO called "Duck Test" and "Duck Test Redux" the gist of which was that Wikipedia checkusers cannot be trusted and most of their sock identifications are bogus. This from a guy whose sockpuppets were actively being busted. As the manager of Wikipediocracy blog, Hersch made these the default placeholders when there was a large time gap between other blog posts.

How are any of these things not massive abuses of authority?

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Auggie
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Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by Auggie » Mon May 14, 2018 9:50 pm

Somey/HK/Gomi like to split threads, move posts, and disappear posts. They used to do it back on WR quite frequently.

sashi
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les carottes sont cuites

Post by sashi » Mon May 14, 2018 11:08 pm

Auggie wrote:bankers in London. This is a classic dog whistle term for "Jews".
Ah, the Rothschilds. At 23, Vincent Bolloré was an adjoint-directeur of the Compagnie de Rothschild. Both the Left & the fachosphère find Bolloré very curious. Looking at dates, it looks like it went like this regarding the mention of his grandmother Nicole Goldschmidt: Le Point > Wikipedia > entreprendre.fr (a mass-market 'zine) > Égalité et Réconciliation ...
fr.wp (2013) wrote:Vincent Bolloré est issu d’une famille d'industriels bretons : fils de Michel Bolloré (1922-1997) et de Monique Follot, dont la mère, Nicole Goldschmidt [1], a beaucoup compté pour lui.

source
entreprendre.fr (unsigned article) (2015) wrote:Petit dernier d’une famille de cinq enfants, Vincent est le fils de Michel Bolloré (1922-1997), industriel breton, et de Monique Follot, dont la mère, Nicole Goldschmidt, a beaucoup compté pour lui.

The last of a family of five children, Vincent is the son of Michel Bolloré (1922-1997), a Breton industrialist, and of Monique Follot, whose mother, Nicole Goldschmidt, counted a lot for him.

source
Now that [1] refers to a different article entirely in Le Point (2003) -- where she counted for Bolloré-"petit loup" (eng. / ned.). The authors talks about her work in intelligence in London during the war, and her subsequent career working through the Red Cross for the SDECE (French intelligence agency) in coordination with Israel, but also about the brood of bonnes familles (Dassault, de Rothschild, de Ribes) he grew up with and the Lazard's, the Bouyges', the Rivaud's he would raid.

Bolloré is Catholic, in the article he says he likes the religion because you can be pardoned in it. He's built quite an empire where the Chinese could've gone, there's no doubt about that. Will there be intercession from on high to pardon him his current run-in with the Law? I wouldn't bet against it.

"bankers in london" is also a classic dog whistle term for "Eat the rich", I think. But I also think if you reduce the sauce too much, Auggie, you end up with burnt pans... Speaking of food & parachutes, "Yvette aime les grosses carottes." ;)

Proabivouac
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Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by Proabivouac » Tue May 15, 2018 2:24 am

Auggie wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 9:50 pm
Somey/HK/Gomi like to split threads, move posts, and disappear posts. They used to do it back on WR quite frequently.
I wonder if American System Publications' Daniel Platt has ever edited WIkipedia. I've seen some of his writing online and he's a pretty good writer. He must be pretty important there if he answered Mrs. LaRouche's questions for her:

http://schillerinstitute.org/lar_relate ... ation.html

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The Devil's Advocate
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Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by The Devil's Advocate » Tue May 15, 2018 3:29 am

Admittedly, old school Wikipedia Review was before my time, but I still don't see anything suggesting a specific wrong involving moderator powers. Not that it is saying a whole lot, but he always struck me as one of the cooler heads on there compared to the others. He didn't descend into nastiness towards members so quickly and didn't flout his powers to the lesser posters. Perhaps he did at one time or I just missed it. Folks would sometimes make an issue out of his politics, but I don't recall a single instance where anything he did in his official capacities with the site struck me as abusive.

Proabivouac
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Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by Proabivouac » Tue May 15, 2018 6:36 am

Over on Wikipediocracy, there is now a thread entitled "Vacancy on Board of Trustees" in which Poetlister and others are suggesting that WPO bigshots including Zoloft and Greg Kohs be nominated for the board. This is very telling of their mindset. Imagine that there is a Communistocracy site ostensibly dedicated to criticizing the Communist Party. However when a seat in the party apparatus is vacant, they nominate one another to fill it. This makes sense only if the ideology of the critics is only minorly different or basically factional in nature. Were they truly opposed to WIkipedia, the notion of joining its leadership and pledging to advance its goals, as Zoloft/Stanistani did when he unsuccessfully ran for the Arbitration Committee, would be abhorrent to them.

Renée Bagslint
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Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by Renée Bagslint » Tue May 15, 2018 10:58 am

Oh, I don't know. If you take the view that the WMF is a fundamentally corrupt organisation, raising funds under false pretences in order to distribute them to favoured cronies, political campaigns and time-serving layabout employees, while tossing out a few crumbs to keep the cult members climbing the greasy pole -- if you believe all that, then becomimg a trustee, using your position to find out where the bodies are buried and then either blowing the whistle, or very ostentatiously digging your heels in and voting against eveything that's corrupt and self-serving, you might be able to make a difference. Unlike joining the Poliburo to kick up a fuss, the worst that can happen is that you get sacked as a trustee and have the other trustees tell lies about you, as happend to James Heilman: they won't actually have you assassinated like Trotsky.

Renée Bagslint
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Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by Renée Bagslint » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:27 pm

Getting back to Wikipediocracy, then, it seems to be emphasising the deckchair-rearranging school of criticism, where footling little suggestions are batted about as if it were possible to fix the truly massive flaws and designed-in failure of the whole enterprise by tweaking some policy or other. It also seems to have decided to adopt an explicit political bias within the currently unhappy scale of US politics.

More useful, though, is WO's role as a home for disgruntled banned users. Venting about the terrible way they were treated may help them come to terms with having to go cold turkey from their appalling addiction. Helpful to the HTD movement is the rather specialised genre in which WO users who claim, possibly even truthfully, to be banned users boast to each other about their armies of sock puppets, the disruption they are still causing, their acts of vandalism, the networks they have compromised and the IP ranges they have managed to get blocked. Fortunately it matters not a jot whether any of that is true or whether it's all completely fictional, or even delusional. The more it encourages the administrators who clearly are momitoring that site to believe in the Great Sockpuppet Conspiracy, blocking and banning away, the more they will alienate contributors who are in fact completely harmless, and the faster the colunteer retention figures will go down the toilet.

Unfortunately what I cannot currently commend any critical site for, whether it be WO or here, is an inclination to take any form of action. For example, WO could and should be running a systematic campaign of disruption by consciously and deliberately implicating users known to be innocent (or at least, not known to be guilty) of socking in order to accentuate the process of alienation I have described. Yes, that would be disrupting the hobbies of random people who never did us any harm, but as Yoda said, an omelette you don't make without an egg you break.

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Auggie
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Re: Wikipediocracy's failure is a joy to watch

Post by Auggie » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:02 pm

mod note: a bunch of posts about GorillaWarfare, ArbCom, and BLP stuff moved
here

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