Suckswatch

General discussion about Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects
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Auggie
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Re: Suckswatch

Post by Auggie » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:48 pm

honestly I hate BLP stuff. Open wiki encyclopedias should not be in the business of informing the public what scumbags we all are.

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The Devil's Advocate
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Re: Suckswatch

Post by The Devil's Advocate » Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:36 am

Auggie wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:51 pm
Eric Barbour is up to his usual, which is simmering hatred of Israel and the Jewish people. Out of all the things to worry about, he feels the most important is a tiny country halfway around the world.
Kind of diminishing the significance given that, for being only 14 million strong, the Jewish people have an extremely outsized influence on U.S. politics and world affairs. That's not bigotry or conspiracy theory. It is reality. Such has also been the case on Wikipedia in the past and there was quite a bit of overlap of those actively involved in white-washing Israeli articles with those doing the same for random articles about Jews. However, he is right in my estimation that there has been a shift in more recent years. One possible reason for this is that Wikipedia has become more leftist and, as such, is more in tune with the anti-Israeli tendencies of the left, which have a habit of bleeding into antisemitism. Doesn't seem that shift is yet so extreme as to seriously impact content on these topics. After all, there haven't been any recent attempts to tear down this godforsaken article. Even articles of more recent interest are managing to not fall to the leftist hordes.

Renée Bagslint
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Re: Suckswatch

Post by Renée Bagslint » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:34 pm

The Devil's Advocate wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:36 am
the Jewish people have an extremely outsized influence on U.S. politics and world affairs. That's not bigotry or conspiracy theory
Yes it is.

I suggest we drop this line and go back to commenting on WS.

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Auggie
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Re: Suckswatch

Post by Auggie » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:43 pm

Renee is right. It is bigotry and conspiracy theory. No amount of Jewish success is acceptable to these people. Losers like Eric see a powerful Jew, and they feel jealous and resentful. Instead of working on their own pathetic lives, they find it more comfortable to obsess about what the Jews are doing.

Like seriously, what are we arguing about here? Didn't most of us agree that BLP defamation is a bad thing? But when it comes to Jews, Eric is pedal to the metal fuck this guy let's libel the shit out of him based on a few Google searches and some magazine articles. It goes to show his demented mindset. What a weak, sad, hateful little man.

sashi
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Re: Suckswatch

Post by sashi » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:12 pm

I'm very puzzled how we got from "Let's push valium" any time someone complains of the blues (my grandmother's doctor had a doctor do just that around the time that this was the Sackler marketing strategy) to these cries of anti-Semitism.

I hadn't remembered the Sackler's religion the first time I read the article. It's true that's far from the most salient point.

https://www.ft.com/content/f3cae1fe-b51 ... 9c8613f4a1

That said, these days I suppose that people would call Jesus an anti-Semite for overturning the tables at the temple.

My limited experience in the IP area on Wikipedia (as well as the articles on the subject) suggests to me that the IDF (or a spin-off) probably has some spinners spinning that part of the Wiki.

I find it amazing that it is illegal in many countries (including the one where I live) to publicly declare you are boycotting a foreign country's avocados, drones, and what have you. Actually, come to think of it, here I don't believe this applies to *all* countries... just to Israel, in fact.

Looking back into it what I say above is more or less correct. (The circulaire Alliot-Marie was very controversial in France... §)

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Auggie
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Re: Suckswatch

Post by Auggie » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:19 pm

In the 1960s the medical profession was fresh off its success against polio and the discovery of antibiotics. They thought they were gods, and enjoyed an unprecedented level of public trust. Did some doctors take things too far? Were they ill-prepared to see through modern marketing tactics? Sure. The issue is a lot larger than one pharmaceutical company.

What makes Eric an anti-Semite is he can't get ten lines into a thread about Israel and Wikipedia without embarking on a rant about various wealthy Jewish-Americans.

We were asked to suckswatch, and that's all I'm doing here. Did anyone on Sucks call him out for his blatant anti-Semitism? Let's not hold our breaths.

As for France, yes you guys are bad at free speech in general.

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The Devil's Advocate
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Re: Suckswatch

Post by The Devil's Advocate » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:24 am

Renée Bagslint wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:34 pm
Yes it is.

I suggest we drop this line and go back to commenting on WS.
Don't know if maybe you are misunderstanding and thinking I am commenting on Barbour. I have no specific comment on whether Barbour's comments are from a place of bigotry or not as I don't know his mind. What I am saying is it is not bigotry or a conspiracy theory to state that Jews have an outsized influence in U.S. politics and world affairs, meaning disproportionately greater than their share of the population. Fact is they do have such influence. Some people may not like others mentioning those kinds of facts, but they are facts nonetheless and we should not censor the truth just because others may cite those facts with ill intent.

The question of influence is relevant to the way editing around Israel is being trivialized here as if it is not a significant issue for Wikipedia criticism. Editing on topics related to Israel is of global importance. My full expectation is that the next world war, should it come, will start in the Middle East and, one way or the other, Israel will be a factor in that as the country's presence and actions have an impact on regional affairs. How this topic is covered by major information sources such as Wikipedia is of undeniable importance. Regardless of whether the coverage is pro- or anti-Israel, it is important to examine that coverage.

Renée Bagslint
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Re: Suckswatch

Post by Renée Bagslint » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:37 am

The Devil's Advocate wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:24 am
What I am saying is it is not bigotry or a conspiracy theory to state that Jews have an outsized influence in U.S. politics and world affairs, meaning disproportionately greater than their share of the population.
And what I'm saying is that, yes it is bigotry and a conspracy theory; and that you are a bigot and a conspiracy theorist to say it. I hope that's clear.

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The Devil's Advocate
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Re: Suckswatch

Post by The Devil's Advocate » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:06 am

Renée Bagslint wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:37 am
And what I'm saying is that, yes it is bigotry and a conspracy theory; and that you are a bigot and a conspiracy theorist to say it. I hope that's clear.
There is no theory involved, only statistics and statistics cannot be bigoted. Facts do not exhibit hatred or intolerance. Reciting or summarizing them is not hatred or intolerance. Jews having a disproportionate level of influence in the world does not make them deserving of hatred or intolerance either. White people also have a disproportionate level of influence on the world. Saying as much would also not be hatred or intolerance nor make them deserving of it.

Renée Bagslint
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Re: Suckswatch

Post by Renée Bagslint » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:18 am

The Devil's Advocate wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:06 am
Facts do not exhibit hatred or intolerance. Reciting or summarizing them is not hatred or intolerance.
Then I suggest you stick to facts. Saying that a group has a disproportionate influence in the world is an opinion, and in this case a bigoted one at that. It isn't a fact because it is essentially untestable and unmeasurable.

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